Curse

The Fox · Mar 30, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

The implementation of traders, which have different prices based on supply and demand is a great system! However, it could be improved by removing the % fee that these traders charge for selling and buying materials/dyes/runes. This means that the sell and buy price would be the same at the trader!

Advantages
1.) much less time selling and buying (no need to sell to other players)
2.) more inventory space (since one will not need to stock up to avoid the traders transaction costs)
3.) less chat spam WTB/WTS (since people will not have a reason to sell to each other)

Basically, people choose to horde stuff because they can't get the market price without wasting lots of time trying to sell. Buyer's are availiable but it also takes time for them to find a seller. Why not make everyone happy? This is the only situation where a perfect market can exist, so for the good of G.W.'s ... please consider it.

Fun > Grind

TheYellowKid · Mar 30, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

market as it is, is fine imo

KvanCetre · Mar 30, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheYellowKid

market as it is, is fine imo

Are you saying that it makes sense to craft steel ingots for 200 gold and some iron when it costs less than that to buy them from a trader?

xiaotsu · Mar 30, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

No need to sell to other players? There's always a need to sell to other players, and no matter what, there would still be "WTB/WTS" flooding the districts. Let's say I start a new character but my other character can't get the items/weapons I would want/need, then obviously I would have to buy from someone else; therefore, I don't think the system would work.

Seems nice in concept, but it would be too hard to get stuff.

Aeon221 · Mar 30, 2006, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Um, are you kidding people?

This idea is perfect for getting rid of _all_ ptp resource trading.

There will still be an arms trade, but this will kill half the scams and WTB/WTS crap out there.

Not all of it, but just think about how many times you see WTS Steel, or Iron, or Wood or Parch, or Ecto, or Shards... and then imagine a game without them.

Kind of like Marhans Grotto, except everywhere.

Now, if only they would put in a weapon mods trader, a greens trader, and a gold weaps auction system.

TheYellowKid · Mar 31, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by KvanCetre

Are you saying that it makes sense to craft steel ingots for 200 gold and some iron when it costs less than that to buy them from a trader?

if u can buy em why craft em????

Quote:

The implementation of traders, which have different prices based on supply and demand is a great system! However, it could be improved by removing the % fee that these traders charge for selling and buying materials/dyes/runes. This means that the sell and buy price would be the same at the trader!

Advantages
1.) much less time selling and buying (no need to sell to other players)
2.) more inventory space (since one will not need to stock up to avoid the traders transaction costs)
3.) less chat spam WTB/WTS (since people will not have a reason to sell to each other)

Basically, people choose to horde stuff because they can't get the market price without wasting lots of time trying to sell. Buyer's are availiable but it also takes time for them to find a seller. Why not make everyone happy? This is the only situation where a perfect market can exist, so for the good of G.W.'s ... please consider it.

Fun > Grind

1. You would only be selling crafting materials and runes (as far as i can remember uni work is pushin out my game knowledge atm lol) so the main things being sold i.e weapons would still be goin on.. out of every 50 messages maybe 5-10% would be crafting materials or runes..

2. Personally i dont have a prob with space.. only when im farming but then thats jus a signal to offload what i got. But even with this change people would still be stocking up spare armor runes for new chars etc etc.. so regardless you would still run into space probs

3. Its fairly easy to avoid chat spam.. turn off trade channel and dont go into LA1 for instance..

4. Sorry if im being dense but how will this half the scams? dont most scams happen on weapons not materials? If you want to stop scams its easy.. set up an auction house.. make seller give the items to an NPC, when someone see's it and wants it they give the asking price, buyer picks up money and nearest convenience or its auto deposited..

5. Dont liek the extra merchants detracts from the fun of the game and finding somethign worthwhile.. makes it too easy for a new player, you should have to work to get a better weapon, salvage a nice mod etc.. if u can jus buy it its like having cheat mode on...

KvanCetre · Mar 31, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheYellowKid

if u can buy em why craft em????

Thats exactly the problem

TheYellowKid · Mar 31, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

i dont get it.. if no ones forcing you to craft them, then you dont you've got an alternative, why is it a problem? bearing in mind if never crafted any materials bar 3 rolls of parchment.. or do you mean trader as in a player selling materials? either way you still have an alternative and if its cheaper its in your benifit..

KvanCetre · Mar 31, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Its a problem because crafting should be cheaper.
The way it *should* work:
You could run to a crafter, spend materials and some cash, and get your item
OR
You could stay in town, buy material from a trader and not have to use materials, but it will cost you.

TheYellowKid · Mar 31, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

why should it be cheaper..?

if i come across steel, of course im going to sell it for less then you could buy it for otherwise i wouldnt be able to sell it..

The merchants are game design.. sellers are player designed, meaning that no one has control of it, it jus happens in response to the going price for something, guess u could call it the ebay of GW

icemonkey · Mar 31, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

a fence always takes a cut.

The Fox · Mar 31, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Please give comments based on why this idea would be good or bad for the game. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KvanCetre

Its a problem because crafting should be cheaper.
The way it *should* work:
You could run to a crafter, spend materials and some cash, and get your item
OR
You could stay in town, buy material from a trader and not have to use materials, but it will cost you.

I don't think this idea causes a problem for crafters, because the crafter transaction prices would still be accounted for in the "open market". Currently the lower crafter prices create arbitrage, which also contributes to the WTB / WTS spam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheYellowKid

1. You would only be selling crafting materials and runes (as far as i can remember uni work is pushin out my game knowledge atm lol) so the main things being sold i.e weapons would still be goin on.. out of every 50 messages maybe 5-10% would be crafting materials or runes..

2. Personally i dont have a prob with space.. only when im farming but then thats jus a signal to offload what i got. But even with this change people would still be stocking up spare armor runes for new chars etc etc.. so regardless you would still run into space probs

3. Its fairly easy to avoid chat spam.. turn off trade channel and dont go into LA1 for instance..

4. Sorry if im being dense but how will this half the scams? dont most scams happen on weapons not materials? If you want to stop scams its easy.. set up an auction house.. make seller give the items to an NPC, when someone see's it and wants it they give the asking price, buyer picks up money and nearest convenience or its auto deposited..

5. Dont liek the extra merchants detracts from the fun of the game and finding somethign worthwhile.. makes it too easy for a new player, you should have to work to get a better weapon, salvage a nice mod etc.. if u can jus buy it its like having cheat mode on...

Response to:
1.) Exactly, this would only apply to commodities that don't vary in quality.
2.) You're lack of space problem does not apply to everyone.
3.) Chat spam shouldn't have to be avoided. A reduction is still good.
4.) People who get scammed have only themselves to blame.
5.) Even with the current system new characters can buy these materials.

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

a fence always takes a cut.

Sure but this is a video game. If the advantages outweight the disadvantage, I'd be inclinded to say it would be benifical to implement. How much game satisfaction do you receive, due to the life like quality of the material/rune/dye traders taking their "cut" of profits.

Wacky · Mar 31, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

/signed. Or at least reduce the spread. Traders are selling some dyes at 11x their buy price, and for common things the trader sell price is somewhere in the vicinity of 3x trader buy price(e.g. wood, chitlin, etc.).

That's just not competitive.

Half the spam in Droknar's is WTS Parchment and other crafting materials. If there was a trader, there would be no need for this.

jummeth · Mar 31, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

spread is required to stop arbitrage. (making free money)

you buy a sick load a low price and it doesn't take much before you start making money. (ie. small changes in the economy have a much larger effect.

This means when you buy something you take much less risk (since you can earn back what you bought it for immediately), thus in the real sense, it is much cheaper.

Wacky · Mar 31, 2006, 08:06 AM // 08:06

I disagree with you on the arbitrage. From economics, if you have a free and perfectly competitive market (i.e. no spread) you could not have arbitrage.

Whereas under the current system you have plenty of arbitrage going on now - people buying wood and selling parchment.

pappayaponta · Mar 31, 2006, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Lets just stick to that we want an auction house!

/not signet

Auction House: /Signed

Xenophon Ualtar · Mar 31, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

The spread will always be there.

1. It is a gold sink

2. It is there to keep people from abusing the supply and demand system. If there is more demand for a certain type of material then the price goes up. Say for instance in a system where the merchant buys and sells for the same price, and we use Parchement selling at a price of 100g each for instance. Ok so mr./ms. rich person comes along and buys 10,000 Parchement which causes the price to go up a little. They then go and sell it and make a nice tidy little profit with little work done on their part.

/EMPHATICALLY NOT SIGNED

The Fox · Mar 31, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappayaponta

Lets just stick to that we want an auction house!
/not signet
Auction House: /Signed

I desire an auction house too! This is basically making the dye/run/material into a true auction house, which is what you want. However, it can't deal with items of various quality, so for weapons/foci/shields ect... another type of system would have to be implemented. I think this suggestion could be done without hardly any effort, and would have a large positive affect, so why complain about it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

spread is required to stop arbitrage. (making free money)

you buy a sick load a low price and it doesn't take much before you start making money. (ie. small changes in the economy have a much larger effect.

This means when you buy something you take much less risk (since you can earn back what you bought it for immediately), thus in the real sense, it is much cheaper.

I'm sorry, but this is not true. Arbitrage is when someone can buy at a lower price and sell somewhere else at a higher price (the current crafter system). By reducing the "spread" of the material/rune/dye traders, one's ability to buy low and sell high is not affected outside of the realm of speculation, which is basially abritrage over a period of time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wacky

I disagree with you on the arbitrage. From economics, if you have a free and perfectly competitive market (i.e. no spread) you could not have arbitrage.

Whereas under the current system you have plenty of arbitrage going on now - people buying wood and selling parchment.

Exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenophon Ualtar

The spread will always be there.

1. It is a gold sink

2. It is there to keep people from abusing the supply and demand system. If there is more demand for a certain type of material then the price goes up. Say for instance in a system where the merchant buys and sells for the same price, and we use Parchement selling at a price of 100g each for instance. Ok so mr./ms. rich person comes along and buys 10,000 Parchement which causes the price to go up a little. They then go and sell it and make a nice tidy little profit with little work done on their part.

/EMPHATICALLY NOT SIGNED

"the spread will always be there" - Maybe, but that's why I posted this in the suggestion forum.

Your scenario is not realistic, if you think you can just buy and immediatly sell for a profit, so I'm assuming you mean that the speculator is then waiting for demand to later rise. Good speculation actually stabilizes prices, which means prices fluctuate less over time. Unsuccessful speculation helps the buyer and punishes the speculator, so there's nothing wrong with speculation. Price stability is good... gold sinks = grind. Fun > Grind.